Perhaps not

Oddly enough, I don’t think the following actually does the guy any favours:

Forum overview as per DelphiFeeds.com

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35 thoughts on “Perhaps not

  1. Why ?
    Had an explanation been provided insted of just deleting threads/posts without any explanation I doubt half the threads would have occurred. Some were people with news readers responding and in meantime thread had silently been removed in the space of minutes I assume (I suspect Most likely in an attempt to avoid Google indexing the thread/message and thus try to hide it was occuring atall. As to why I sure dont know).

    IMO it does the image EMBA and TeamB no favours more than anything else.

    • Had I not published a blog post entitled ‘Pathetic’ in the full knowledge that it would appear on DelphiFeeds.com, I doubt half the threads would have occurred. (And before you get the wrong idea: the important part of that sentence is ‘on DelphiFeeds.com’, with the least important word being ‘I’.) I posted in the hope that some publicity might cause an agreement between the two parties to be made in private. I still hope that.

      • Was not getting wrong Idea atall and Indeed your post here must have driven quite alot of traffic there. But half those threads in that screen cap were caused as I described above Im sure .

        I cant see any way there will be any agreement between parties with what Ive whitnessed today quite the opposite in fact IMHO.

        • As it currently stands, he is banned from the Embarcadero forums, so it’s pointless trying to directly breach a ban that is definitely in place. Put normatively, it disrespects Embarcadero’s autonomy, or their ability to control their own forums; and put instrumentally, it obscures the obvious point that posting *elsewhere* (in, say, blogs that happen to be syndicated on DelphiFeeds.com…) will by definition escape the clutches of TeamB moderation.

          • Whats this about breaching Bans ? At least 2 Threads I saw purely asked ‘Why did that Thread disappear’ and ‘Why are seemingly innocuous threads been deleted’ etc . Within minutes they disappeared too before some people with news readers could even finish responses it appeared !

            I suspect any ‘Emerging Mob’ is largely made of these people. Had thread been locked with explanation or other remedy informing people why I doubt there would have been so much wriiten arround blogs about this.

  2. @FromEurope: *EXACTLY*

    If someone has been an a** in a forum and is banned from *further* participation on that basis, then by all means ban them, but leave the offending posts up so that people can judge for themselves.

    Removing them leaves, or rather *creates*, room for doubt. Unable to judge for themselves whether a post is justifiably deleted, people will polarise into those who fall on the side of free speech without knowing what was said and those who will defend the right of the forum moderators to moderate as they see fit, without knowing whether the moderation was warranted.

    • ‘EXACTLY’ what? On the assumption that it is supporters who are now getting their messages deleted, I do not expect Embarcadero to bow down to an emerging mob, since I expect no institution or person to do such a thing. The best place for public grandstanding is outside of Embarcadero’s own forums, in (for example) blogs such as mine or indeed your own. Happily, I now see you agree to the extent of blogging yourself about the matter…

      That said, as a point of procedure, you’re free to say ‘arse’ in these comment boxes if you want. πŸ˜‰

  3. I think I oopsed when I tried to reply to this earlier.

    In any event, he has been banned from the groups and his messages (and apparently threads) are being deleted.

    What more explanation do you need?

    Simon knows what to do to make things right. It’s up to him, now.

    • Not only his threads Bruce. People simply asking why certain posts were removed were themselves having their posts removed within minutes with no explanation whatsoever. There is no apparently about it they were period.

      As far as Simon having to make things right I suggest certain individuals doing the moderation also know what they need to do to make things right aswell but of course wont because they deem themselves always in the right IMO.

      This also gives Simon’s Perspective as to the original troubles and concur with events I saw from the outside of course :

      http://delphiroadmap.untergrund.net/codegear_newsgroup_censorship.html

      • In my opinion, Simon isn’t the aggrieved party here. If he wants to post to Embarcadero’s groups, then it’s up to him to assure them that he isn’t going to do the things that got him banned in the first place.

        Of course, this doesn’t excuse any abuse by TeamB any more than any abuse by TeamB would excuse the bot spamming.

        • Ok Bruce taking your scenario was he even given the chance to assure them of his conduct now ? I saw no evidence of it.

          I also remember very well the behaviour of both parties in those original problems. It was far from one sided and all Simon as I recollect. In fact what happened was not that disimilar to today with even his name mentioned in a Thread and It disappeared within minutes as but one example. Today was in some ways worse IMO as even someone just asking why did that thread disappear was having their thread deleted within minutes

          • “was he even given the chance to assure them of his conduct now ?”

            I don’t know, but this was posted to the other blog comments that he was following, so if he wasn’t aware, he should be now.

            I remember some of it, too. I don;t care if he doesn’t always agree with Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero, but I have a hard time getting past the bot spamming incident (among other things). That’s why I think he should make the necessary gesture.

            If he can’t be bothered, then that’s cool, too, but don’t expect me to be bothered to look at things from his point of view.

          • Was just stating what he posted Bruce in case you werent aware . I made a bet with myself a largely negative spin on it would be the response. I wasnt disappointed πŸ˜‰

        • Well Bruce he has posted on another Blog now in response to you that he has tryed to talk with Embarcedero since March but has had no reply πŸ˜‰

          • Part of me hopes that he is genuinely willing to try, but in some of his other responses, he refuses to take responsibility for his own actions.

            We’ll see.

          • Was just stating what he posted Bruce in case you werent aware . I made a bet with myself a largely negative spin on it would be the response. I wasnt disappointed πŸ˜‰

          • “Was just stating what he posted Bruce in case you werent aware . ”

            I know. Me too.

            “I made a bet with myself a largely negative spin on it would be the response. I wasnt disappointed”

            You should have seen my response when he originally pulled these stunts. πŸ™‚

  4. I’m not aware of what happened at the team between Simon Kissel and Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero – I really do not pay attention to these issues, but I’m just a happy CrossKylix user, so any new release / update to CrossKylix is worth mentioning, in my view (so I posted a blog about it, that’s all).

    I do hope whatever issues were/are present, can be resolved between the parties concerned, but still that won’t stop me from using CrossKylix πŸ˜‰

    Groetjes, Bob Swart

    • “I’m not aware of what happened at the team between Simon Kissel and Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero – I really do not pay attention to these issues”

      Sensible man, even if I don’t entirely believe you — you mean to say you haven’t been an avid reader of non-tech over the years?! πŸ˜‰

      “I do hope whatever issues were/are present, can be resolved between the parties concerned”

      Quite!

      • I do follow the non-tech and other newsgroups, but not always on a daily basis – sometimes I’m just too busy with “real work” (and there are too many threads that I just skip and ignore). The last thread I read was about Nick being “let go” by Embarcadero…

        I cannot remember what or when exactly things went wrong between Simon and Borland/CodeGear – although I do recall that a server was brought down or something like that. But like I said before, I’m never interested in these kinds of issues or details. Since it’s several years ago (I believe), I just hope people can find it in their heart to admit mistakes, apologise where needed, forgive each other, and just move on. πŸ˜‰

        • “Since it’s several years ago (I believe), I just hope people can find it in their heart to admit mistakes, apologise where needed, forgive each other, and just move on. ;-)”

          Couldn’t agree more Bob ! Here Here

  5. I’m very afraid about this, people is shouting left and right, about what is correct or not, about a lifetime ban for someone that contributes for free to Delphi community. About DoS attacks. About this or that… and everything sounds like a cacophony of lies!
    So, is really need all of this? Just a direct and frankly awnser is need, ’cause that looks like from here, that embarcadero is making all Delphi users as clown in a horror circus show…
    Step ahead, don’t forget the past just to not do the same errors and remember… Without programmers – that must be respected – Delphi is just nothing…
    And sorry for my harsh words – my english also isn’t that good.

    • @Bruce
      It is not end of Story Atall IMHO. Mainly because in relation to the recent happenings its only half the story im my opinion. You should be aware of that now as you were apparently copied into an email that was also sent to Joylon giving specific examples of other peoples posts been deleted for merely mentioning Simon or his software and asked your opinion . I refer you to Joylon’s blog at :

      http://www.deltics.co.nz/blog/wp-trackback.php?p=640

      And the post at July 30, 2010 at 14:22 on page 2 where he mentions this email.

      Just because you want it to be End of Story doesnt make it so Bruce.

      I note the plug for Delphilive too. Arent you a guest speaker at it ? πŸ˜‰
      The Gold partner for event is Embarcedero too πŸ˜‰

  6. imho, replies to and reposts of deleted messages are rightly removed. As are messages whining about banned people having their messages deleted and the firestorm of (at least partly artificial?) outrage and armchair quarterbacking that follows.

    If (haven’t seen them first hand, but if you say so…) any genuinely innocent messages were removed, then I think that’s heavy handed, or at least over enthusiastic. You might have missed where I said something along those lines in another blog comment somewhere. I also think some not so innocent messages are being portrayed as innocent victims.

    Is that what’s getting you all tied up in knots? Kind of like an unrepentant drunk driver causing an accident and writing tickets for the rescue vehicles that show up to clean up the mess.

    I’m tempted to ask why you’re so bent out of shape at Borland and Embarcadero for their response but are so willing to give the original incident a pass, but whatever. I tend to think Simon’s actions are far worse and that he continues to deserve the ban that he worked so hard to earn. At most, I might say to Embarcadero or TeamB “take a breath, guys”.

    If I were speaking at DelphiLive, would that make any difference to the matter at hand?

    Are you attending?

    • Just the kind response I expected.
      Whatever too Bruce. As I said before Keep broadcasting the ‘ party line’ and trawling the blogs like this πŸ˜‰

      The attempt to cast people who WERE caught in the crossfire now as ‘not so innocent’ is a cheap shot IMO but not wholly unexpected.

      Sure Ive seen your posts especially on Joylon’s blog. Hence my reference to it above. Interesting you make no reference to that in response. Maybe because the specific post I mentioned is at odds with Party line your trying to broadcast .

      Also give it up trying to get an adverse reaction out of me so you can try and paint it in a bad light. It wont happen πŸ˜‰

      Indeed what has Delphilive got to do with matter at hand as you term it. So why plug it in response above ? πŸ˜‰

      • Wow. You seem to be really up in arms about anything that doesn’t condemn Embarcadero. Or is it just comments that don’t agree with your own? As for trawling, you might be projecting a little. Or trolling. Six of one…

        The most useful advice I can think of for you is switch to decaf and maybe get some more fibre.

        So, you aren’t going to DelphiLive? You could bring up some of your points with Embarcadero directly. You might want to soften your tone a little. I understand David I is a mad man.

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